Making mistakes is good!

I have to bring this up. There are so many people asking advice on here and its a shame that instead of getting it they get abused for a simple speling errer. Surely thats not what its all about. We all make mistakes - natives living all their lives in England often speak "incorrectly". I say "incorrectly in inverted commas because theres a theory amongst the upper echelons of ESL theory makers that if English is used on a wide scale incorrectly it actually becomes authentic English.

The genius who taught me how to teach explained it like this: If the natives of North Manchester conjugate the verb bring as - bring brought brung/brang (which they do!) how can it be right to correct learners of English on every mistake they make? In North Manchester it would not be "authentic" language use if you went there speaking "the Queens English" (whatever that is!).

The English language continues to develop and "mistakes" will always be a part of its development.

You are right, but you have to look at the whole situation. If someone is asking what his/her chances of teaching English abroad are, then he should proof read his/her writing.

Same goes for explaining grammar. If you're going to give advice, then you should either (a) make sure that you are correct, or (b) say that you are not sure if your answer is correct. There is no shame in saying that you are not sure/you don't know.

There is also a person on this forum who uses really weird English (bad grammar mostly, awkward sentence construction, strange vocab sometimes), but they will fight you to the end that they are right even though a few people repeatedly prove them wrong. That person likes to give advice, but all they are doing is confusing others.

(and yes, that was a singular "they")

So, context is everything. I agree that it's stupid to point out a silly mistake like a typo, especially if it has nothing to do with the question/answer, but at the same time you have to look at the whole picture and try to understand how (and if at all) that mistake/typo fits.

Another thing is that many people who come here for advice, they come here looking for perfect grammar and spelling. They come here begging to do their homework (because they are too lazy to do it themselves, but they still want the highest grade), or to check their homework, or they are preparing to sit exams and they have questions about exercises or something. You have to be careful then and make sure that you are giving them the right answer. Just ignore those who want you to do their homework; they are just lazy bums.

Then there is another group of people (they usually will not log in) who think their English is sooooo good that they have all the answers. They will not answer any questions (probably don't know the answers), but they delight in finding errors in other people' work and they probably have an orgasm when they find a mistake, especially if they find a mistake in the work of one of the forum's experts.

eva74
Everything that you write is perfectly true, but I doubt that this will reach the eyes and ears of those who need this the most.

That's ok, terri, I've had a long day and I needed to vent.

And if they do come here and read it, then maybe they can correct that last piece I wrote. It's so bad it's scary.

Right on Eva I could'nt have said it better, at least someone is able to see what's going on.

Bestest, Don't got it, Rawk, Gunna, shuld, Dunno, Dawg, coulda, woulda, shoulda, musta, Gurl, monkees and I can go down the line about how many words natives mispell and you know why they do it?, cause they know English front to back, Do you think that they don't know how to spell this words correctly? What you Poles don't know (*cause English is new in Poland) is that English is Anglos first language and not second, therefore they have been speaking english their whole lives and they change the spelling just to have fun cause they are bored of the old way, this is a piece of information you all should listen to and put down your books cause nobody speaks like a book, well maybe Poles sound like books,lol.

English is not new in Poland - people have been speaking English in Poland for a very long time. I take your point about having 'fun with language' 'word play' etc. and the fact that English is Anglos 'first' language. This is however, not strictly true. There are many people who may consider themselves British, (born in England, even) for whom Ebnglish is not their first lingo. True, there are not many people in England who speak or write English 'straight from a language book', but believe me there is an enourmous amount of pleasure to be gained from listening to someone who can speak their native language in the way it should be spoken.
This is a forum for 'polishing up your English' and we should try, whenever possible to encourage people to achieve near 'native like' fluency.

You miss the point I was trying to make Terri. "...pleasure from listening to English spoken the way it should be". I take it you mean the English we find in course books? Dont you agree that the use of "authentic" English i.e. "incorrect" but accepted and used by the natives, should also be encouraged when non-natives learn the language? Its a part of the English language and in my opinion should not be hidden from learners who want an in-depth knowledge of the language. Of course, if Im teaching from a book I will teach the content as it is but when Im speaking I'll speak like a native (mistakes 'n all). Its authentic, real English.

No, I didn't miss the point. Yes, I agree with you that you should teach English as it is spoken (mistakes 'n all) but only when you are teaching practical English, as to me this is the only way non-natives will be able to ever communicate with 'natives'. But for the passing of English exams, like FCE, CPE etc they need to know the correct forms. Marks are deducted for making mistakes which would be, and are quite acceptable and understandable by everyone in normal conversations. The problem with teaching is that it is difficult to 'unlearn' something once it is registered in the brain. Natives, by their very nature, know when to use 'proper' English and when to use 'street' English. This is an aspect which may, at times prove somewhat difficult to distinguish for non-natives.

Terri who are u to say how a language should be spoken, The God of nobody? thinking a little too high of herself ? I invite you to get down from that cloud your riding on. The way you speak English gives me a headache, you sound so stupid but then again you'll never believe in a million years that you speak like a nerd. Polish people speak English ? Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa, Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa, ok I'm done. Yeah in Poland evryone speaks English, I wonder why there is an invasion of English schools cashing in and forcefeeding Poles what they could learn on their own ? I'm sure some coward kiss ass that allows everyone to say anything they want but the truth, is going to delete my thread cause I hit a vain deeply and some people just can't handle the truth.

Terrier,
I have never said (so please do not infer) how I believe that a language should be spoken. If you cannot read exactly what I do write (or read only what you think I write) then please read my posts again. It is one thing to teach people how to speak/write and quite another to teach them how to pass the necessary exams. And please, leave personal attacks for those people who cannot argue the point, but think that by demeaning me they themselves are 'high and mighty'.
p.s. I do not speak like a 'nerd' I have never spoken to you - I have only 'written'. The fact that nowadays there are many schools, only reflects the sign on the times.

Terri not only you sound like a nerd you are a proven moron ,sign of the times or sign of not speaking English in Poland?, you are such a nerd that even your messages sound nerdy. How do you pull that off ? Terri knows it all, she's got all the answers but yet she is just a Teacher of the mighty English language in a little town. ha ha ha ha, little things make littlwe people feel big...

Terrier,
For your information, No, I am not a teacher of the almightly English language in a little town. Personal attacks only prove that you cannot argue a point, but think that attacking women proves that you are a 'big man'. I will repeat exactly your words: ittle things make little people feel big'. Reading your posts, we can only assume the level of intelligence that it takes to actually use the English language to its full potential.

And yet another thread is pi**ed on by people missing points and others trying to wind people up. Terrier, youre a tw@t and Terri....How come any thread youre involved in goes off topic and ends in a stupid slanging match? What a waste of time....

I don't know. Recently, I have also come to the same conclusion as I felt that I was being personally attacked. Whenever possible, I try not to write anything offensive and only offer help and advice on topics that I know something about. But it seems that there's always someone out there, who tries to prove how 'clever' they are and tries to demean not only me, but others who also offer help. From now on, I am not getting involved with any slanging matches with any 'trolls'.

Yes, it is a shame when some knob-end, who finds he's better at starting flame wars than he is at staying on topic, manages to hijack a thread. Perhaps this site might function more effectively if it were moderated.

I understand it is sometimes difficult to stay on topic when one feels under attack (esp' regarding trolls), but avoiding impulse and taking time to consider what it is exactly that you're saying, and specifically what your intent is, can be of benefit.

Cheers