mały problem

I reckon he wanted to make the point that BBC seems to confirm his theories - as I call them :)

Rich, why do you think I think that mariooooooooo is wrong when he says:

It was the last time I had gone to a birthday party.

In all my previous posts never did I use the form 'had/have gone', but 'had/have been'. Do you know why? I know that you don't like this structure, with a perfect tense used, but let's forget it now, shall we.

is it right to say:

he wanted to make the point - as if I was to hunt and beat up the game :) ??
I didn't want to use "to make one's points" :)

will it be better to write - he wanted to make a point of trying to find a confirmation for his theories ?

Thanks!

Engee, I am sorry - I didn't really understand what you were trying to say in you last post.

Richie (newspeak.pl) - Another Plug - YES!!!!

>Engee, I am sorry - I didn't really understand what you were trying
>to say in you last post.

Well, never mind :/

It's strange though you can't understand each other. How come ?

Merix, I'm amazed at your interpretation of the facts. I've always shared engee's opinion in terms correctness of the ...first I have done... form.

In my first post there's no intention on my part to differentiate between have gone/have been. Just thought it had been the form used before, that's why I reiterated it so many times. In fact I broached totaly diffrent issue, related to the way 'Engee had supported his THEORY' (resolution seen from the past), the only point I wanted to mention, I belive it's noticeable.

In terms of BBC I wrote they'd prefer to use the past p.form

needless to say, I'm not going to 'ramble on my THEORY', I'm surprised engee didn't cite any titles so far. I'm going to visit the Waterstones and produce some more credible evidence.

Merix, what do u mean?
>so it's even more complicated to understand them properly, as they don't know exactly how to put the message across.

opinion in terms of correctness of the ...first I have done... form.

There is one thing I am sure of about me and mariooooo - we absolutely agree on the use of a perfect tense in 'This/That/It is/was the first/second/last time + perfect tense'.
There is one more thing I am sure of about me and mariooooo - he doesn't know what's wrong with that use of 'have/had gone' in such a structure.
And I had thought it would be you, Richie, to tell us all what's wrong about it. I'm gonna explain it to anyone interested in the matter, but I'd rather see what other forum members have to say on the issue. I wish they would say something about it.

I wouldn't say there's a huge difference. Inasmuch as... it's the first time I have been to a party... connotes ...u still might be there... anyway, it's worth mentioning.
btw. check English Grammar in Use by Cambridge Uni... it corroborates the THEORY

it's the
>first time I have been to a party... connotes ...u still might be
>there... anyway

This is exactly where you are WRONG, marioooooooooooo !!!

really, why???

let's pretend that u are there and u've never been there. Smb asks u, do I know u? u've been here before, haven't u...
if what u say is the case, u're not suppose to say : it is the first time I've been there...

>if what u say is the case, u're not suppose to say : it is the first
>time I've been there...

no, you would say, 'it was the first time I'd been there/here', or 'it is the first time I've been here (not there)'

obviously HERE, misspelling..

>first time I have been to a party... connotes ...u still might be
>there... anyway

>This is exactly where you are WRONG, marioooooooooooo !!!

so how come I'm wrong???

the subject is the structure ...It is the first time I have been here...

what's wrong with what I wrote?

I got to go out.
go on...

>This is exactly where you are WRONG, marioooooooooooo

I got confused here, too :)

You should know that the verb 'go' has two past participle forms: 'gone' and 'been (to)'.

If you say, 'She has gone to a concert.' you only mean that she is on her way to it, or maybe she has just got there. But still, she hasn't experienced the concert yet, there is no implication of her being there and back. No experience!
More importantly, the verb form 'gone' is the only form that can be used in this sentence.

If you say, 'She has been to a concert.' you mean everything - she went to a concert, she saw the concert, and she returned from the concert. It's all about her experience!
Again, more importantly, the only from of the verb to be used here is 'been to'.

Now, speaking of the structure in question:

if you say, 'It was the first time she had gone to a concert.' you only imply her action of going somewhere, without its aftermath - we don't actually know whether or not she got there to see the concert;

if you say, 'It was the first time she had been to a concert.' you get everything in it!

Remember one thing:

'I have been to Greece.' the form of the verb 'been (to)' is the past participle of the verb 'go', and not 'be'! You can never say that somebody is to somewhere, can you?

She went to Greece. [the verb go]
She has gone to Greece. [the verb go]
She has been in Greece. [the verb be]
She has been to Greece. [the verb go]

That's it!

so, whilst being at the party one cannot say 'it is the first time I have been to a party' beceause it hasn't been fully experienced yet???
or, if one can, where are the boundaries of this experiece???

can I say ' it is the first time I have been to a party' when I'm just about to enter?? From what u say I assume that one cannot. am I right????

ok ... it was the first time I had been at/in... seems to be the most reasonable...when u're there

It is the first time I have been to... seems to be a bit contradictory...but it is widely used and ???correct???, after all I think it is not

and ...it was the second time I have gone... seems to be at odds cause your first time when u say it certainly had been experienced, so it must have been the first time u had been to... it seems that way

mariooooo, the following sentences are correct:

It is the first time I have been to a concert. [I am at a concert now]
It was the first time I had been to a concert. [I was at a concert then]
It is the second time I have been to a concert. [I am at a concert now]
It was the second time I had been to a concert. [I was at a concert then]
It is the last time I have been to a concert. [I am at a concert now]
It was the last time I had been to a concert. [I was at a concert then]

>first time I have been to a party... connotes ...u still might be
>there... anyway

>This is exactly where you are WRONG, marioooooooooooo !!!

>If you say, 'She has been to a concert.' you mean everything - she went to a >concert, she saw the concert, and she returned from the concert. It's all >about her experience!
>Again, more importantly, the only from of the verb to be used here is 'been to'.
>if you say, 'It was the first time she had been to a concert.' you get >everything in it!

what u say seems to be at odds with

>It is the first time I have been to a concert. [I am at a concert
>now]
>It is the second time I have been to a concert. [I am at a concert
>now]
>It is the last time I have been to a concert. [I am at a concert now]

>>first time I have been to a party... connotes ...u still might
>be
>>there... anyway
>
>>This is exactly where you are WRONG, marioooooooooooo !!!
>

not MIGHT BE, but you ARE there, experiencing or being about to experience it!

[the test is about to begin]
Tom [instructor]: Hey, Jasmin, you seem so tense today. Why is that?
Jasmin: Oh my gosh! This is the first time I have been to a driving test.

[the concert is about to finish]
Tom: So how has the concert been?
Jasmin: Wow! It's been great! You know, it's the first time I have been to a live concert. I'm so excited!

>If you say, 'She has been to a concert.' you mean everything - she went to a >concert, she saw the concert, and she returned from the concert. It's all >about her experience!
>Again, more importantly, the only from of the verb to be used here is 'been to'.
>if you say, 'It was the first time she had been to a concert.' you get >everything in it!

so, when one says It is the first time I have been to.. it doesn't necessarily mean that this activicty has been accomplished???
>not MIGHT BE, but you ARE there, experiencing or being about to
>experience it!
this seems to be contrary to the distinctiona u made beforehand.
has been to Greece
has gone to Greece

>so, when one says It is the first time I have been to.. it doesn't
>necessarily mean that this activicty has been accomplished

EUREKA!

>this seems to be contrary to the distinctiona u made beforehand.
>has been to Greece
>has gone to Greece

you still don't see the diference between the past participle forms of the verb 'go':
has been to = experience
has gone to = action

Even if you say, 'It's the first time I've been to a wedding', this still implies experience. That's the way it is!

>you still don't see the diference between the past participle forms of the >verb 'go':
>has been to = experience
>has gone to = action

Belive me I do and assuming that u do, at that point I was more then surprised reading that I'd been wrong.
All started from:

>>it is the
>>first time I have been to a party... connotes ...u still might
>be
>>there... anyway
>
>>This is exactly where you are WRONG, marioooooooooooo

and we got to:
>not MIGHT BE, but you ARE there, experiencing or being about to experience it!

I didn't ask all these question just to beat the air
This is exactly where u were WRONG saying that I had been wrong.
It is the first time I have been to...
What does this sentence convey u are missing??? Think about it...

I'm moving house at the moment so I didn't have time to answer earlier....


.......................

It was the last time I HAD DONE sth
co koreluje z opisem czynnosci wykonywanej w czasie terazniejszym:
It is the last time I HAVE DONE sth.


........................



OK. I agree guys that the rule "This/it is the first/second/hundred time" requires Present Perfect, and Past Perfect usually when we refer to the Past, the problem is that "last time" is the exception. You can't say: "It is the last time I have done it" simply because you can't be sure that it will be the last time ;-) This grammar structure requires Present Continuous or "going to" or Present Simple or Future NEVER Present Perfect: "It is the last time I going to/will do/ am doing/ do something"


I'm going now to cut carpets in my flat....Maybe I can manage to write something about "it was the last time..." tomorrow.....

>This is exactly where u were WRONG saying that I had been wrong.
>It is the first time I have been to...
>What does this sentence convey u are missing??? Think about it...

So, now it's me who's been wrong all along, innit? Would you be as kind to show me where I've been getting it wrong then?

sentence u might still be there, covers the following options:
1. U are there at the moment
2. U are not there at the moment but u must have been there.
hence
1. It is the first time I have been to a party. There is so many people...PRESENT SITUATION
2. It IS the first time I have been to a party. There were so many people...PAST SITUATION

whichever form is to be used, the sentence It's the first time I've been to a party covers options listed as being in the scope of ...u might still be there...
>>This is exactly where you are WRONG, marioooooooooooo
>not MIGHT BE, but you ARE there, experiencing or being about to experience it!

this was exactly where u were wrong saying that I had been wrong.

>>so, when one says It is the first time I have been to.. it doesn't
>>necessarily mean that this activicty has been accomplished

>EUREKA! EUREKA???????????????? At the beging u said it was exactly where I had been wrong... >not MIGHT BE, but you ARE there, experiencing or being about to experience it! these are your own words!!!!!!!

btw I don't like this rhetoric of yours. Try to read intently before making generalisation...
>So, now it's me who's been wrong all along, innit?

Dont worry engee you are right about the sentence "It is the first time I have been to..." - it's about being there - present situation - action not finished....